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	<title>Comments on: And the winners are . . .</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.billrini.com/2004/04/16/and-the-winners-are/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.billrini.com/2004/04/16/and-the-winners-are/</link>
	<description>Bill Rini's Poker Weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue,  6 Jan 2009 13:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Teddy J</title>
		<link>http://www.billrini.com/2004/04/16/and-the-winners-are/#comment-42848</link>
		<dc:creator>Teddy J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 05:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.billrini.com/?p=50#comment-42848</guid>
		<description>A word about online poker.  Whether or not the sites intentionally rig their software or 

not will always be open for debate.  Any experienced poker player who has played online 

for a week or two will observe that there are a large occurence of suspicious hands and 

most will stop playing.  

1.  There is a high motivation for onine poker sites to rig the software and the 

arguement of "why would they, they make tons of money anyway" is not really legitmate.  

They stand to multiply their profits tenfold by rigging the game for action and bad 

beats.  It keeps bad players playing and neutralizes good players.  However, this 

arguement can be beaten to death and the only way to prove the game is rigged is to 

obtain an active copy of the source code they are running.  No site will ever offer this 

up and it is very easy to mask and hide the actual source code during audits, etc.  The 

only way, in my book, a poker site could legitimate its software is by undergoing a full 

Sarbanes Oxley audit, which they won't.  They don't need to, they operate outside of US 

law.  If you feel that the Kahnawake Gaming Commission is a strong enough authority to 

audit your favorite poker site, be my guest.  There is really no point in arguing this, 

if you believe it is rigged, don't play.  

2.  Beyond the 'rigging' arguement there are plenty of motivators to keep honest poker 

players out of online poker rooms.  Collusion is real and active in all poker rooms all 

of the time.  I personally know a husband and wife team that have made hundreds of 

thousands using collusion in online poker rooms.  In fact, they have quit their daytime 

jobs as active traders on the stock market.  Their routine is fairly simple, they each 

operate 4 to 8 poker IDs at the same time and run the software from different locations 

using Remote Desktop to login to machines at the homes of friends and families.  They 

constantly close and open accounts and use fake names and IDs, all transactions going 

through Neteller.  While their accounts do get cancelled on occasion, none of the online 

poker rooms seems to care if another account signs up and transfers money from the same 

Neteller account 10 minutes later.  Their favorite targets are mid range tourneys (27 to 

63) players with buy-ins around 20 dollars.  Mind you, they are both very good poker 

players to begin with, and they play very tight poker until the tables are reduced and 

they own multiple seats at one table.  Then the collusion kicks in and they generally 

take 4 of the 8 or so paying spots at the table.  They are not milllionaires but do make 

about $200,000 a year doing this.  Keep in mind there is only two of them, a team of 10 

can rake in millions.

3.  RNGs can be cracked, software can be hacked and the 8 Billion dollars in profits 

generated by online casinos in 2005 is enough to draw the best hackers in the world.  

Basically, when online poker (and casinos) popped up, all the hackers stopped going 

after banks and fortune 500 companies and set their sites on you, the online poker 

player.  Why would they waste their time attempting to hack the best gaurded sites in 

the world when they have second rate programmers writing archaic software running out of 

unregulated and unprotected sites in every third world country south of Mexico?  For 

example, most of you have probably seen advertisements for Poker RNG 4.0.  This software 

claims that it builds a database and after about 2000 hands will give you a 90% accurate 

read on other players whole cards and what the flop, turn, and river will bring.  This 

is complete crap.  The software fails b/c they expect you to manually enter at least 

2000 of your hands that you follow to the river, never going to happen.  In reality, it 

takes more like 100,000 hands to accurately predict the outcome of an RNG.  A plant of 

100 BOTS feeding a common database can log 100,000 hands in less than a day.  The RNG 

can be cracked within 95% accuracy within a matter of hours and then bang...you get 

pulled out to the river, all-in, holding A K by someone with pocket 7 2 and lose your 

stack, sound familiar?  This is real.  I work for a software company and had an hour 

long conversation with a couple of our developlers about the prospect of building such 

software.  One is a PHD in mathmatics from India, the other is a premier Java programmer 

from Israel.  They assured me that what I am describing can be written in a matter of 

days (poker is very simple).  Here is a quote from my Isreali friend: "what you are 

talking about, not exactly, but very similar, my friends are doing at home".  Thats 

about as far as I am going to go with this example.

Bottom line:  Online Poker is a haven for criminals, scams, cheats, and bad beats.  If 

you are a legitimate poker player, stay away.  If you want to put together a cheating 

system to rob from others, this is the best place to do it right now.  Have fun, I will 

not be participating.  See you back in the brick and mortar, good luck, and godspeed.

- Teddy J.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A word about online poker.  Whether or not the sites intentionally rig their software or </p>
<p>not will always be open for debate.  Any experienced poker player who has played online </p>
<p>for a week or two will observe that there are a large occurence of suspicious hands and </p>
<p>most will stop playing.  </p>
<p>1.  There is a high motivation for onine poker sites to rig the software and the </p>
<p>arguement of &#8220;why would they, they make tons of money anyway&#8221; is not really legitmate.  </p>
<p>They stand to multiply their profits tenfold by rigging the game for action and bad </p>
<p>beats.  It keeps bad players playing and neutralizes good players.  However, this </p>
<p>arguement can be beaten to death and the only way to prove the game is rigged is to </p>
<p>obtain an active copy of the source code they are running.  No site will ever offer this </p>
<p>up and it is very easy to mask and hide the actual source code during audits, etc.  The </p>
<p>only way, in my book, a poker site could legitimate its software is by undergoing a full </p>
<p>Sarbanes Oxley audit, which they won&#8217;t.  They don&#8217;t need to, they operate outside of US </p>
<p>law.  If you feel that the Kahnawake Gaming Commission is a strong enough authority to </p>
<p>audit your favorite poker site, be my guest.  There is really no point in arguing this, </p>
<p>if you believe it is rigged, don&#8217;t play.  </p>
<p>2.  Beyond the &#8216;rigging&#8217; arguement there are plenty of motivators to keep honest poker </p>
<p>players out of online poker rooms.  Collusion is real and active in all poker rooms all </p>
<p>of the time.  I personally know a husband and wife team that have made hundreds of </p>
<p>thousands using collusion in online poker rooms.  In fact, they have quit their daytime </p>
<p>jobs as active traders on the stock market.  Their routine is fairly simple, they each </p>
<p>operate 4 to 8 poker IDs at the same time and run the software from different locations </p>
<p>using Remote Desktop to login to machines at the homes of friends and families.  They </p>
<p>constantly close and open accounts and use fake names and IDs, all transactions going </p>
<p>through Neteller.  While their accounts do get cancelled on occasion, none of the online </p>
<p>poker rooms seems to care if another account signs up and transfers money from the same </p>
<p>Neteller account 10 minutes later.  Their favorite targets are mid range tourneys (27 to </p>
<p>63) players with buy-ins around 20 dollars.  Mind you, they are both very good poker </p>
<p>players to begin with, and they play very tight poker until the tables are reduced and </p>
<p>they own multiple seats at one table.  Then the collusion kicks in and they generally </p>
<p>take 4 of the 8 or so paying spots at the table.  They are not milllionaires but do make </p>
<p>about $200,000 a year doing this.  Keep in mind there is only two of them, a team of 10 </p>
<p>can rake in millions.</p>
<p>3.  RNGs can be cracked, software can be hacked and the 8 Billion dollars in profits </p>
<p>generated by online casinos in 2005 is enough to draw the best hackers in the world.  </p>
<p>Basically, when online poker (and casinos) popped up, all the hackers stopped going </p>
<p>after banks and fortune 500 companies and set their sites on you, the online poker </p>
<p>player.  Why would they waste their time attempting to hack the best gaurded sites in </p>
<p>the world when they have second rate programmers writing archaic software running out of </p>
<p>unregulated and unprotected sites in every third world country south of Mexico?  For </p>
<p>example, most of you have probably seen advertisements for Poker RNG 4.0.  This software </p>
<p>claims that it builds a database and after about 2000 hands will give you a 90% accurate </p>
<p>read on other players whole cards and what the flop, turn, and river will bring.  This </p>
<p>is complete crap.  The software fails b/c they expect you to manually enter at least </p>
<p>2000 of your hands that you follow to the river, never going to happen.  In reality, it </p>
<p>takes more like 100,000 hands to accurately predict the outcome of an RNG.  A plant of </p>
<p>100 BOTS feeding a common database can log 100,000 hands in less than a day.  The RNG </p>
<p>can be cracked within 95% accuracy within a matter of hours and then bang&#8230;you get </p>
<p>pulled out to the river, all-in, holding A K by someone with pocket 7 2 and lose your </p>
<p>stack, sound familiar?  This is real.  I work for a software company and had an hour </p>
<p>long conversation with a couple of our developlers about the prospect of building such </p>
<p>software.  One is a PHD in mathmatics from India, the other is a premier Java programmer </p>
<p>from Israel.  They assured me that what I am describing can be written in a matter of </p>
<p>days (poker is very simple).  Here is a quote from my Isreali friend: &#8220;what you are </p>
<p>talking about, not exactly, but very similar, my friends are doing at home&#8221;.  Thats </p>
<p>about as far as I am going to go with this example.</p>
<p>Bottom line:  Online Poker is a haven for criminals, scams, cheats, and bad beats.  If </p>
<p>you are a legitimate poker player, stay away.  If you want to put together a cheating </p>
<p>system to rob from others, this is the best place to do it right now.  Have fun, I will </p>
<p>not be participating.  See you back in the brick and mortar, good luck, and godspeed.</p>
<p>- Teddy J.</p>
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