Comments on: Bonus Whoring http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/ Bill Rini's Poker Weblog Sun, 7 Sep 2008 06:53:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: john sucewolec http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-33821 john sucewolec Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:00:55 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-33821 Hey, you're fat Hey, you’re fat

]]> By: Maudie http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-518 Maudie Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-518 Up until reading this post, I thought I was perhaps crazy for not pursuing bonuses earnestly. It was never that profitable for me and I hated getting stuck on a site I despised just to clear the bonus. Any way - your anlysis is dot on - take care of the customers you have and you will cultivate a healthy garden of loyal consumers. I hope you are right that the big sites are beginning to realize this. Up until reading this post, I thought I was perhaps crazy for not pursuing bonuses earnestly. It was never that profitable for me and I hated getting stuck on a site I despised just to clear the bonus. Any way - your anlysis is dot on - take care of the customers you have and you will cultivate a healthy garden of loyal consumers. I hope you are right that the big sites are beginning to realize this.

]]> By: Joe Speaker http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-519 Joe Speaker Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-519 I'm with you (and Maudie). I've never had the time, nor the patience (nor the results) to justify chasing bonuses. It's not a "perk" that appeals to me. Great analysis. And I like the new look! I’m with you (and Maudie). I’ve never had the time, nor the patience (nor the results) to justify chasing bonuses. It’s not a “perk” that appeals to me.

Great analysis. And I like the new look!

]]> By: Mourn http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-520 Mourn Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-520 Amen. Imagine if Party took all the money they pay out in bonuses in one month and put it towards a project to fix their software. Here's hoping. Amen.

Imagine if Party took all the money they pay out in bonuses in one month and put it towards a project to fix their software. Here’s hoping.

]]> By: Drizztdj http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-521 Drizztdj Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-521 I am a die hard bonus whore. I admit it. But recently I've had second thoughts about 4-5 tabling just so I can clear a bonus, rather then really look at what I'm actually playing! While I love to chase bonuses... I very much agree to your statement about "rewarding consistent play on a certain site". True enough, if there were such loyalty programs out there besides the free tshirt/book swag, I would probably stop chasing and start playing at one site. I am a die hard bonus whore. I admit it.

But recently I’ve had second thoughts about 4-5 tabling just so I can clear a bonus, rather then really look at what I’m actually playing!

While I love to chase bonuses… I very much agree to your statement about “rewarding consistent play on a certain site”. True enough, if there were such loyalty programs out there besides the free tshirt/book swag, I would probably stop chasing and start playing at one site.

]]> By: Easycure http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-522 Easycure Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-522 I totally agree with you....the best businesses put as much energy or more to customer retention as to customer growth. If you can't keep the current customers happy, how in the hay are you supposed to keep the new customers? It's pretty simple, actually. I totally agree with you….the best businesses put as much energy or more to customer retention as to customer growth. If you can’t keep the current customers happy, how in the hay are you supposed to keep the new customers? It’s pretty simple, actually.

]]> By: Mike http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-523 Mike Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-523 I certainly won't miss the bonus whoring. Maybe they can concentrate on making rake back something official. I like the new site design. Its good to know you can still find uses for your reg. ;) I certainly won’t miss the bonus whoring. Maybe they can concentrate on making rake back something official.

I like the new site design. Its good to know you can still find uses for your reg. ;)

]]> By: Grinder http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-524 Grinder Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-524 I believe you are slightly wrong. Doing the Party bonus all the time and $1/2 is only SLIGHTLY worse then doing them at $2/4. IN fact it's only $21 worse and I am not taking into account that play gets better the higher you go. Well, actually 2/4 has worse players then 1/2 but I glaze over that problem. Perhaps I'll talk about that in MY blog with the numbers I'm using :-) BTW - feel free to show I'm wrong - I have been in the past! www.grinderswarehouse.com I believe you are slightly wrong. Doing the Party bonus all the time and $1/2 is only SLIGHTLY worse then doing them at $2/4. IN fact it’s only $21 worse and I am not taking into account that play gets better the higher you go. Well, actually 2/4 has worse players then 1/2 but I glaze over that problem.

Perhaps I’ll talk about that in MY blog with the numbers I’m using :-)

BTW - feel free to show I’m wrong - I have been in the past!

http://www.grinderswarehouse.com

]]> By: Bill Rini http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-525 Bill Rini Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-525 Grinder, Well the premise isn't to show an exact dollar figure loss per se. It was more of a general illustration of one of the many reasons why bonus whoring can be -EV. The losses in EV, IMHO, are in the fact that people could get into the trap of chasing bonuses intead of becoming better players. Go check out some of the bonus whore sites and you'll quickly see a pattern of players jumping down to .50/$1 play (and lower) just to clear a bonus on a site. I read a funny thread the other day about the Empire account closures and and one guy said he had been clearing bonuses playing $1/$2 for 3 years. In three years he should be playing $5/$10 - $20/$40 not jerking off trying to catch another $100 bonus. Grinder,

Well the premise isn’t to show an exact dollar figure loss per se. It was more of a general illustration of one of the many reasons why bonus whoring can be -EV. The losses in EV, IMHO, are in the fact that people could get into the trap of chasing bonuses intead of becoming better players. Go check out some of the bonus whore sites and you’ll quickly see a pattern of players jumping down to .50/$1 play (and lower) just to clear a bonus on a site. I read a funny thread the other day about the Empire account closures and and one guy said he had been clearing bonuses playing $1/$2 for 3 years. In three years he should be playing $5/$10 - $20/$40 not jerking off trying to catch another $100 bonus.

]]> By: Viscant http://www.billrini.com/2005/05/08/bonus-whoring/#comment-526 Viscant Wed, 31 Dec 1969 16:00:00 +0000 http://www.billrini.com/?p=277#comment-526 Chasing bonuses is only -EV if you change your normal routine to get the bonus. You assume that everyone is going to drop down to .5/1 or 1/2 to clear the bonus when this isn't always the case. I figure that if you're going to play these hands anyways, why not be paid to play the hands? In your examples you use a 5/10 player as your example. Let's say that I want to sign up to Empire or Intertops or whatever Party skin that is offering a 5x signup bonus. Let's be very conservative and say that it takes 750 hands to clear the bonus. That's still more than 1 BB/100 to add to my overall winrate. Turning down that extra BB/100 is silly, IMO. While I agree with you that concentrating more on bonuses and less on improving your play and moving up levels when it's time is -EV, that's just not always the case. For many bonus whores like me, I'm doing exactly what I would do anyways. Playing the sites I would play anyways, playing the hands I would play anyways, on the tables I would play anyways, playing the limits I would play anyways. I'm just getting paid prop wages to do it. Sounds like a good deal to me. Chasing bonuses is only -EV if you change your normal routine to get the bonus. You assume that everyone is going to drop down to .5/1 or 1/2 to clear the bonus when this isn’t always the case. I figure that if you’re going to play these hands anyways, why not be paid to play the hands?
In your examples you use a 5/10 player as your example. Let’s say that I want to sign up to Empire or Intertops or whatever Party skin that is offering a 5x signup bonus. Let’s be very conservative and say that it takes 750 hands to clear the bonus. That’s still more than 1 BB/100 to add to my overall winrate. Turning down that extra BB/100 is silly, IMO.

While I agree with you that concentrating more on bonuses and less on improving your play and moving up levels when it’s time is -EV, that’s just not always the case. For many bonus whores like me, I’m doing exactly what I would do anyways. Playing the sites I would play anyways, playing the hands I would play anyways, on the tables I would play anyways, playing the limits I would play anyways. I’m just getting paid prop wages to do it. Sounds like a good deal to me.

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