Seems I get a lot of traffic and emails from the posts I’ve done about PokerBot Pro. You may remember them as the poker bot written by some guy who is making outlandish claims about how well they work and how helpless you are without his product. He does everything from guarantee you income to making claims that the human brain is very limited in understanding complex games like poker (interestingly, most AI researchers think it’s the other way around; computers can’t beat experienced real players). The most important find though was his claim that the product was so successful that he was going to pull it from the market forever. When I did my original post about this, March 14, 2006 was the big date his product was going to disappear. Though I already had remarked that this was highly unlikey, others later pointed out that he has a Javascript application that constantly changes the date which proved my assumption.

Well, one of the other claims made on the site is that there’s a 100% Money Back Guarantee. One of my faithful readers purchased this piece of garbage and attempted to get a refund. His email exchange with the payment processor is included below.

—–Original Message—–

From: David Glazen [mailto:glazen@gmail.com]
Sent: 11 August 2006 17:33
To: @whylose.com
Cc: Emetrix Customer Support
Subject: Re: Refund Requested: E080906661292 (KMM31825093V39832L0KM)

please issue a full refund

On 8/11/06, John Preddy – WhyLose.com wrote:

Hi,

Thank you for your response.

The manufacurer knows that request cannot be complied with.

A complete hand history is not available on any poker site.

Further this is an online service and I will not be posting a letter – that is simply a delaying tactic. It will be alleged that it was not received.

Come on – do the right thing and refund my card and cancel this vendor’s facility. It really does bring your service in to disrepute. If you run with dogs you will catch fleas.

http://www.billrini.com/2006/03/13/pokerbot-pro-another-online-scam/ is another source of reference for an independent view on this product. I have taken on far bigger organisations than yours and won. Two governments have changed laws because of me. And I WILL get my money back with or without your co-operation.

I don’t propose to enter in to any further dialogue on this.

Mark Twain said “Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.”

Regards,

John Preddy

—–Original Message—–

From: Emetrix Customer Support [mailto: support@emetrix.com]
Sent: 10 August 2006 21:58
To: John Preddy – WhyLose.com
Subject: Refund Requested: E080906661292 (KMM31825093V39832L0KM)

Dear Customer,

The manufacturer of the software has requested that a written letter be sent to their offices to finish the refund process. Once they receive the letter the refund will be issued. Below are the instructions on what to send and how to send it.

Once you have reached the 30 days please send a written request to:

Glazen Online Services
7B Pleasant Blvd suite #980
Toronto, On
M4T 1KT
Canada

You must include your name, date of purchase, emetrix order ID, complete hand history, and reason for requesting a refund. Once this is recieved your refund will be issued. Please see the complete refund policy at: http://www.pokerbot-pro.com/disclaimer.htm

Kind Regards,

Tomson K.
Customer Service
Emetrix
Case ID:14716123

Original Message Follows:

————————-

Hi,

It appears that you are providing a payment solution for software which at best does not work and at worst is a total scam. http://forum.winholdem.net/wbb/viewtopic.php?t=5608&view=previous&sid=ae6e88b8310e573d1f90868f37f1f244 will assist.gl

For your convenience I attach a copy of the guarantee found at http://www.pokerbot-pro.com . I require you to refund my credit card within seven days or I will issue a chargeback on 16th August 2006. I have copied this email to glazen@gmail.com – the address found at the bottom of http://www.pokerbot-pro.com – but others have have been emailing the vendor and he hasn’t replied. There is a money back guarentee. Please honour it then cancel this vendor’s account. The guarantee attached also says “..log-in to your favorite poker client and let the program do its magic.” However, it only works – badly – with Ultimatebet.com. If I hear nothing from you witin three days I will start the chargeback procedure early. Regards, John Preddy —–Original

Message—–

From: Emetrix Sales [mailto:sales@emetrix.com]
Sent: 09 August 2006 17:50
To: @whylose.com
Subject: Emetrix Order Confirmation

Thank you for using Emetrix.

Your order has been successfully processed. This is your receipt. You may wish to print it for your records.

(1) – PokerBot Pro 2.0: £110.25 ea.
Delivery Option Charges: £0.00
Tax / VAT: £19.29
Order Total: £129.54

Details on product delivery are included below:

~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~

Now, I do think John is barking up the wrong tree here. The payment processor really has no ability to make the refund without a chargeback being initiated from the issuing bank. It would be like receiving the wrong book from Amazon and then calling Paymentech (or whoever their merchant banking relationship is with) and asking for a refund.

I’ll also defend the payment processor in that the site does list terms and conditions that state that the request for a refund must be 30+ days after obtaining the product. Though, my guess is that the 30 day waiting period is in hopes people forget that they got burned. I would imagine most people who download it, realize pretty quickly it’s not anywhere near what they were expecting (and what was promised), and ask for their money back. A thirty day cooling off period might slow down some of those refund requests. I’m fairly sure the other requirements of sending a snail mail request and barking like a dog while facing Canada are also designed to put up barriers to refunds.

I also find it interesting that he makes claims to the effect that you can use the product on any website and it obviously doesn’t work on many of the major sites. The fact that the site doesn’t list any supported sites should be a tip off that you’re making a leap of faith in trusting this guy.

I did get a chuckle out of the disclaimers page which states:

Neither the information, nor any opinion expressed, constitutes a recommendation to play online poker.

Now, let’s compare that to what he actually says:

You must listen to me very carefully and read every single word of this explosive letter. You are about to get the chance to earn a GREAT living from online poker – 100% GAURANTEED!

I guess that’s not a recommendation to play online poker. Then again, neither is this:

Remember what I am offering here. A RISK FREE opportunity to have an army of PROVEN money-making PokerBots play for you! You don’t need a degree in computer science to understand that this is a Win-Win situation!

As a final note, the payment processor did agree to reverse the charge for John. I guess they looked at the cost of the chargeback and decided that John was the type of guy who they couldn’t string along until he ran out of wind.

Good going, John!

8 thoughts to “PokerBot Pro – The Saga Continues

  • quincarroll

    Hi

    Thanks for the warning about this crappy software. I am a software developer, and I really enjoy playing poker. I read a lot and try to absorb everything I learn about poker playing. I have often thought about what it would take to write a basic bot to play poker on my behalf, and I decided that I like playing poker myself. Why would i want a bot to play for me? To make money I guess! This brings me to a point I am pretty sure that a lot of people have thought about. If it is soo amazingly good at playing poker and making the user soo much money, why is this guy selling the software? He should be rolling in money. Why would he sell it to others and if it is as good as he claims it is, then why is he not using it? Because it is useless and it doesn’t work, thats why.

  • Franklin S.

    Can anyone tell me what info I need and exactly what I need to do to force Emetrix to give me a refund?
    I purchased $280 of software through them which is garbage. (It’s not poker software, it DVD copying software.) The company, CloneDVD, clearly states that they offer refunds, but when I ask for a refund they tell me my reasons are not sufficient. I believe they are just using delay tactics.
    So if anyone can tell me how to get my refund, I would really appreciate it.
    Thanks,
    Franklin S.
    Augen2020@HotMail.com

  • Travis

    Hey everyone, I also got a refund. It only took me a couple days total as Emetrix actually emailed our infamous “Glazen” and he actually approved the refund. It took about 2 days to get back into my bank account.

  • steven lavigne

    ok all i bought pokerbot-pro ya i was sucked in to. a refund is possible as i got mine today oct. 12 2006 after 10 days of unrelentness e-mails to emetrix and david glazen and to the bbb of utah where emetrix is stationed.using the info the bbb supplied to me about emetrix and the complaints the have filed against them. i also filed a complaint about david glazen’s so called poker bot. emetrix and david glaven have both emailed me with confirmations on my 234.00 cdn. funds to be refunded. so people use all the info you can to supply the bbb of utah in you’re complaint. then inform emetrix and david glazen of you’re actions against them. it will get you results in the end. just keep informed by the bbb and you will win. good luck to u all.

  • William M. Plante

    Hi –

    My name is Michael. Just wrote to tell you I got caught in this scam today – and then came across your site. Wish I had found it BEFORE, and not after the purchase. I just made the request for refund to the payment processer, here is the email I sent them – just a little more fodder for your cannon – keep up the good work guys!

    **************************

    Purchase of Pokerbot Pro:

    To whom it may concern:

    I purchased this product that you provide payment services for today, 09/23/2006. A copy of my order follows:

    ******************************
    Thank you for using Emetrix.

    Your order has been successfully processed. This is your receipt. You may
    wish to print it for your records. Please reference this number with any
    questions: Order ID – E092306989668

    NOTE: The Order ID is an order reference number. See below for information
    on product delivery.

    Note that the charge on your card will appear from Emetrix.

    For product technical support contact glazen@gmail.com or visit
    http://www.pokerbot-pro.com

    For questions specifically related to the order visit http://www.emetrix.com/cs
    Include the contents of this email in your correspondence.

    Name: William M. Plante
    Email: webmaster@go-article.com
    Address:
    1994 Skyland Glen Dr.
    Snellville, GA 30078
    US

    Phone: 678-521-6473

    (1) – PokerBot Pro 2.0: $199.00 ea.
    Delivery Option Charges: $0.00
    Tax / VAT: $0.00
    Order Total: $199.00

    Details on product delivery are included below:

    ~~~~~~~~~~
    PokerBot Pro
    You can download the full version of PokerBot Pro from this link:
    http://www.emetrix.com/sd/5033766/14577546/PokerBotProSetup.exe
    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Putting You in Control of your E-Commerce: http://www.emetrix.com
    ******************************

    After having purchased this product, I found that the product itself would not validate properly and therefore could not be used beyond the demo mode.

    I have made two attempts today at contacting the provider of this software, David Glazen, and have yet to receive any reply in regards to this issue. I have a problem with spending $199.00 of hard earned money on a defective product, and even more of a problem when the provider provides no support.

    After running into this, I started a search online for this product, to see if others had any issues with the software. I came across a series of emails that your company was involved in over a month ago, in which complaints were made at that time in regards to David Glazen and his product, as well as his apparent lack of commitment to his product and his refund policy.

    Copies of the email exchange being referred to follow:

    **************************
    —–Original Message—–

    From: David Glazen [mailto:glazen@gmail.com]
    Sent: 11 August 2006 17:33
    To: @whylose.com
    Cc: Emetrix Customer Support
    Subject: Re: Refund Requested: E080906661292 (KMM31825093V39832L0KM)

    please issue a full refund

    On 8/11/06, John Preddy – WhyLose.com wrote:

    Hi,

    Thank you for your response.

    The manufacurer knows that request cannot be complied with.

    A complete hand history is not available on any poker site.

    Further this is an online service and I will not be posting a letter – that is simply a delaying tactic. It will be alleged that it was not received.

    Come on – do the right thing and refund my card and cancel this vendor’s facility. It really does bring your service in to disrepute. If you run with dogs you will catch fleas.

    http://www.billrini.com/2006/03/13/pokerbot-pro-another-online-scam/ is another source of reference for an independent view on this product. I have taken on far bigger organisations than yours and won. Two governments have changed laws because of me. And I WILL get my money back with or without your co-operation.

    I don’t propose to enter in to any further dialogue on this.

    Mark Twain said “Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.”

    Regards,

    John Preddy

    —–Original Message—–

    From: Emetrix Customer Support [mailto: support@emetrix.com]
    Sent: 10 August 2006 21:58
    To: John Preddy – WhyLose.com
    Subject: Refund Requested: E080906661292 (KMM31825093V39832L0KM)

    Dear Customer,

    The manufacturer of the software has requested that a written letter be sent to their offices to finish the refund process. Once they receive the letter the refund will be issued. Below are the instructions on what to send and how to send it.

    Once you have reached the 30 days please send a written request to:

    Glazen Online Services
    7B Pleasant Blvd suite #980
    Toronto, On
    M4T 1KT
    Canada

    You must include your name, date of purchase, emetrix order ID, complete hand history, and reason for requesting a refund. Once this is recieved your refund will be issued. Please see the complete refund policy at: http://www.pokerbot-pro.com/disclaimer.htm

    Kind Regards,

    Tomson K.
    Customer Service
    Emetrix
    Case ID:14716123

    Original Message Follows:

    ————————-

    Hi,

    It appears that you are providing a payment solution for software which at best does not work and at worst is a total scam. http://forum.winholdem.net/wbb/viewtopic.php?t=5608&view=previous&sid=ae6e88b8310e573d1f90868f37f1f244 will assist.gl

    For your convenience I attach a copy of the guarantee found at http://www.pokerbot-pro.com . I require you to refund my credit card within seven days or I will issue a chargeback on 16th August 2006. I have copied this email to glazen@gmail.com – the address found at the bottom of http://www.pokerbot-pro.com – but others have have been emailing the vendor and he hasn’t replied. There is a money back guarentee. Please honour it then cancel this vendor’s account. The guarantee attached also says “..log-in to your favorite poker client and let the program do its magic.” However, it only works – badly – with Ultimatebet.com. If I hear nothing from you witin three days I will start the chargeback procedure early. Regards, John Preddy —–Original

    Message—–

    From: Emetrix Sales [mailto:sales@emetrix.com]
    Sent: 09 August 2006 17:50
    To: @whylose.com
    Subject: Emetrix Order Confirmation

    Thank you for using Emetrix.

    Your order has been successfully processed. This is your receipt. You may wish to print it for your records.

    (1) – PokerBot Pro 2.0: £110.25 ea.
    Delivery Option Charges: £0.00
    Tax / VAT: £19.29
    Order Total: £129.54

    Details on product delivery are included below:

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    This is only a portion of what I have available in regards to this particular issue, but I am sure you will be able to find these emails in your files somewhere and confirm, at least through this correspondence – that a true problem exists with this provider.

    Given the obvious perception that David Glazen is operating a scam service, and has no intention of honouring mine, or any other, request for refund, I do not feel in any way that I am bound to wait for ANY period for an immediate refund of my money. NO time limit fo refund was posted on his sales page, just one of apparently several inaccuracies and falsehoods he perpetrated on that sales page.

    His apparent actions from over 30 days ago related in the above emails indicate fraud at the very worst, and total lack of regard for his committments at the very least. Either way – I am not inclined to wait for this refund of my money.

    I am somewhat surprised that you would continue to provide a payment method for this person to continue operating an obvious scam.

    Even though I totally understand you have nothing to do with this scam, you are facilitating the very method by which this individual perpetrates and preys on others. I have no idea how many complaints you may have received or been made aware of over the last several weeks or months, but I find it hard to understand why you continue to allow this individual to continue operating with you and using you as the method to execute his fraudulent activities on innocent consumers.

    Having said all this – I am offering you one opportunity to reverse my $199.00 charge immediately, and deal with David Glazen in your own way, on your own terms. Your company is in contract with him for this payment service.

    I will give you 3 days to conform to this request, at which time if you have not replied or indicated that you are refunding my money back to my CC, I will have no recourse but to begin chargeback/reversal process with my bank, and have them open an investigation into your provider, which unfortunately could involve your company as well in said investigation.

    While I do hope we can work this out amicably, I strongly advise that you consider my position in this, do the right thing, and most of all, conduct yourself accordingly!

    MOST Sincerely,
    William M. Plante

  • Andy

    Hi, I am by nature a cautious bloke. I saw this ‘fantastic’ poker program and instantly thought it too good to be true. However I’m also curious and thought I’d investigate it further as David Glazen does make some wild claims of untold wealth from using it. He even gaurantees it 100%! I’m glad I did scratch the surface and find your blog. Thanks for being out there and warning people of thi ‘scam’. What really got me was the refund policy of ‘a complete hand history’ will be required. As anyone who has played online poker knows this is impossible! For one, no poker site provides this and two, it would be impossible to do it manually. People who make unsubstantiated claims like this really should be put out of business. Keep up the good work.
    Andy.

  • Bill

    John,

    No, I understand the chargeback process. I’ve designed payment systems for several different companies.

    The payment processor normally isn’t concerned about the chargeback rate. They’ll just drop the merchant (e.g. PokerBot Pro) if that merchant’s chargeback rate becomes excessive. The payment processor’s chargeback rate is based on perhaps hundreds or thousands of merchants that they service.

    By contacting the payment processor you’re sort of making them into a judge and jury on your claim. And since, technically, the refund policy said 30 days you’re asking them to make a judgment call that isn’t completely black and white.

    I’m glad it all worked out for you but most payment processors wouldn’t even take the time to do more than send you a canned letter telling you to go back to the merchant. That was why I said you were likely barking up the wrong tree.

    Bill

  • John Preddy

    Hi Bill,

    You wrote: “I do think John is barking up the wrong tree here. The payment processor really has no ability to make the refund without a chargeback being initiated from the issuing bank. It would be like receiving the wrong book from Amazon and then calling Paymentech (or whoever their merchant banking relationship is with) and asking for a refund.”

    I’m not sure I understand you. For clarification this is my view on the process. A chargeback is a processed credit card transaction that is reversed (charged back) to a merchant because either I or my bank finds something wrong with the transaction.

    There are several reasons a transaction can be reversed. My reason for dispute would be that the purchased merchandise was defective and an attempt was already made to resolve the dispute.

    I would have initiated the process from my UK bank while I’m in France and the vendor is elsewhere. It’s a simple process. I apologise if we are in agreement here or I didn’t explain adequately. Simply, though, I would have got my money back and his account with his bank would have been debited.

    The reason I contacted his payment processor is because if their chargebacks in number or volume run at an unacceptable % as a company they will lose their facility to process online credit card payments on bealf of others. So I took the view they might want to do a refund – a different procedure which never affects their business viability – rather than probably receive yet another chargeback from my bank.

    Any questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

Comments are closed.