Bill's Poker Blog » WPBT

Joe Sebok Gets Canned

Bill Rini — Wed, 11 May 2011 02:28:29 +0000

First off, I want to say that as far as I know I’ve only met Joe Sebok once a few years back at the WPBT event at Imperial Palace. He came with Barry Greenstein who was speaking before the tournament and we said “Hi, nice to meet you” or some other rather impersonal exchange.

I want to get that out there because I have no ill-will for the guy. I don’t know him. I have nothing against him.

That said (you knew that part was coming, right?) I did want to address his blog post about being let go from UB/AP. You gotta give the guy credit for being and admitting to being naïve but I think he misses something in his post. He says:

Regarding the current state of AP/UB, I haven’t given up hope that all of you will get your money back. I believe that UB is making many, many efforts to get you that money. You may say, “Well, if there were lies before…” and that’s totally fair, but their is absolutely a segment of that company trying to do the right thing. I dearly hope that they are successful. I have been told by upper management that ongoing discussions have been happening between the DOJ and UB with that being the focus. There is a lot of misinformation being thrown around and it really saddens me that so many have fanned the flames of panic when, in truth, they simply do not know what is going to happen, just like me. UB and their legal team is trying to work creatively to get that money back to players, I have been told. I haven’t been promised that that can happen, but I have been informed that is the goal. This was never going to be a short process though, which leaves so much room for speculation. I am trying to not engage in that, hope, and be patient. It’s not easy.

(emphasis mine)

I emphasized a few points there because they contradict each other. First off, Joe has already admitted that he was too naive in dealing with them in the past. He seems to indicate that he’s learned his lesson but he goes right back to relying on what they’re telling him. If he doesn’t know any more than we do and he’s relying on people telling him that they’re doing this or that then that’s not simply being naive. That’s called denial.

On one hand, I believe that Sebok didn’t know about anything going on in the company. On the other hand, you’re staking your reputation on a company built up of guys who have been caught ripping off players. I don’t expect Daniel Negreanu to go in and do an audit of PokerStars’ books but PokerStars hasn’t had two cheating scandals previously. Anybody who is going to take the job of being a spokesman for UB or Absolute better do some due diligence.

Back in 2009 when Sebok joined on at UB here were some of the things he was saying:

Although heavily involved with PokerRoad, Sebok said UltimateBet started pursuing him several months ago, but he had to make sure things were on the up-and-up with the site. “They told me that they were very interested and initially I was too turned off by the past scandal to even consider it. We kept talking, though, and it quickly became apparent that both Paul Leggett and I were on the same page with wanting to not only to do things completely differently, but also to atone for the way things had been handled in the past. From that point, it was just a matter of getting a few things started to make us both feel comfortable” Sebok said in an interview with Pokernews.com.

Having drawn a line in the sand, Sebok felt there were three hurdles to get over before he could take Leggett seriously. “For me personally, I wanted to get three things accomplished: get the cheating account handles out in the open, open up the access for players to get all their hand histories, and get the actual physical names of the cheaters, besides Russ Hamilton, out in the open. We succeeded in getting two-thirds of that list done and that was enough for me to come on board and continue to work for #3 on that list,” he said.

So it’s a little confusing when he says today:

I was never privy to the deep inner workings of the business. How money was moved around, whether it was held in segregated accounts, etc, was nothing I ever worked on, and to be honest with you, ever thought about before April 15th. I really put a lot of faith in the people I worked with, and the company itself. I really believed that management thought the past was the past and that they wanted to have things be different in the present and the future. I wanted to believe that with all of my heart, and in fact I completely staked my reputation on it.

How can someone be deep inside the company fighting crime like a superhero and not have any insight into the deep inner workings of the business? Wouldn’t that be a prerequisite if someone had been turned off by the scandal and wanted to atone for the way things had been handled in the past?

That has been one of my biggest complaints about UB and AP since the scandals. Neither of them have ever fully stated exactly what they are doing different today that will prevent something like this from ever happening again. That would be my number one priority. I would want to see everyone even remotely involved in the previous scandals gone, a checks and balances in place (internal security that keeps an eye on employees), and internal auditing. And since those would be very positive developments you would expect UB and AP to be shouting them from the rooftops if they actually had put anything even remotely like that in place. The silence is deafening.

And maybe Sebok wasn’t the best person in the world to understand how all of that works but that should be the huge red flag that maybe this isn’t the job for you. If you don’t understand how money moves on and off a site or how people inside the company can game the system hire someone and make it a condition of your endorsement that your guy gives the place a clean bill of health.

I think Daniel Negreanu’s take is dead-on:

Then there is Joe Sebok who signed with the company in the hopes of cleaning things up. I genuinely believe that was his intent. I genuinely believe he thought he could make a difference and clean up that mess of a company. I also don’t personally believe he knew of the Tom’s involvement, but I can’t say that with certainty. I definitely think he was naive in trusting Paul Leggat with his reputation. That’s a lot of faith to put in a man who’s first instinct during the original scandal was to cover it up. Seems like that was a really bad read on his part.

I personally think it was a foolish mistake to ever get involved with those crooks, regardless of the price, but that wasn’t my decision to make. It’s hard to come back from touting a company through twitter and other social mediums, that in the end, likely won’t make good on paying the players back. At this point, why would they pay the players back? The site is going under, so paying the players in the hopes of more good will would be useless. It would be the “right thing to do,” but I don’t that matters much to them. If you had money on UB/AP come to terms with the fact that it’s gone forever, and in the case of a miracle, think of it as free money. That’s sad to say, but you don’t really have many other options at this point it doesn’t seem like.

In the end, Sebok’s mouth wrote checks that his knowledge of the online poker industry couldn’t cash. He also demonstrated a lack of business accumen and gullibility that should preclude him from ever taking on a similar role for any poker room ever again. I could be wrong but I believe the guy when he says he didn’t know anything. But that is part of the problem. I believe he had no idea what was going on while being a mouthpiece for the site and staking his personal reputation on people who had already demonstrated their ability to run cons.

Now his credibility in the industry is right up (or down) there with Ultimate Bet. If they eventually pay players off some people might be willing to at least forgive though they might not necessarily forget (and if US players were somehow allowed to play on UB again they should be rushed immediately to the mental ward). Same will probably hold true for Sebok. If UB pays people will still remember him for being gullible and naive but some of their bitterness might be diluted with the fact that everything worked out in the end.

On the other hand, if UB and Absolute skip town on the money Sebok is toxic waste in the poker industry. The other pros let go the other day Maria Ho, Tiffany Michelle, etc, etc never claimed they were going to clean up UB so they escape from all of this as mere casualties of war who couldn’t sign with a better room. Somebody put some money in front of them and asked them to wear a patch and they did it. The only exception to that might be Prahlad Friedman who now comes in just behind Sebok in terms of damage done. For Friedman, this was like finding out your girlfriend is cheating on you, breaking up with her, taking her back, and finding out she’s still cheating on you.

As Daniel said in his article, this is all of our fault. By not demanding better we got what we have today. It’s the apathy of the industry and the players that let UB and AP survive their cheating scandals. It’s lax gaming regulators who let them keep a license that helped get us to where we are today. If there’s any silver lining in all of this is that maybe after players lose some money they’ll start demanding regulation in the US to make sure that this never happens again.

Top 10 Poker Blogs Worth Reading

Bill Rini — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 16:19:54 +0000

In my never-ending attempted to alienate and piss off people, I thought I would compile of a list of poker blogs that I regularly read. As the universe of poker blogs has exploded over the last few years I typically find myself reading less and less blogs. Some, like Hank’s Cards Speak which posts maybe once a year or so are high quality but don’t really post enough to be considered a regular read. Others (too many to mention) were once regular reads but then slowly expanded beyond poker to the point where it’s not really fair to even call them poker blogs today.

So, without any further ado, the top ten poker blogs worth reading (in no particular order than the order I happened to think of them):

Guinness and Beer: I’m not sure if reading Iggy’s blog will make you a better poker player but you sure as hell will have a good time reading it. Iggy spends his days swilling beer and surfing the web in search of obscure and often humorous poker material and then he somehow finds a common thread between multiple stories and voila you have an uber post. Your boss will hate Iggy but once you start on an uber post you can’t put it down.

Dr. Pauly: Dare I say there is no better tournament reporting around. I mean who else would write seriously about which poker pros he’s pissed next to in the men’s room at the WSOP? Most tournament reporting is so dry yet Pauly always finds a way to find a way to make it entertaining.

N 82 50 24 / Nat Arem Blog: Posts on a whole variety of topics but always something interesting. He has a very analytical mind, a wonderful wit, and always seems to be working on something interesting.

Noted Poker Authority: I guess this is one of my few hardcore poker blogs. Ed Miller is the guy who’s book opened up my eyes to a lot of concepts that were lost on me in the Sklansky books. I like Ed’s writing style and the way he walks you through hands making you think about poker is some non-traditional ways.

Wicked Chops Poker: I like WCP for no other reason that I dig their humor. Granted there are times when I think they’ve milked a joke past it’s expiry date but they do it in a way similar to Family Guy where they intentionally drag out a scene to the point of being uncomfortable . . . but that’s what makes it even funnier.

Mean Gene: Gene has a knack for writing quality tournament coverage that I always enjoy. He’s also a really good guy and it comes across in his writing style.

Up for Anything: What happens when you take three talented writers and put them on the same blog? Up for Anything happens. Besides, how can I not regularly read the guy who took $700 or $800 off me in one drunken pot or the guy who I had to battle it out with heads-up to take down the WPBT event at the Aladdin?

Pokerati: Dan the Man. Actually, Pokerati is more than just Dan but it’s Dan’s writing that lured me in and has kept me captive.

Terrence Chan: Terrence is always globetrotting around the world and playing poker. Being a fan of both travel and poker . . . natural fit.

Daniel Negreanu: I actually wish Daniel would post more poker strategy but I do enjoy getting his take on life and the industry. He’s surprisingly candid about other players and his personal life and I like reading about that.

Honourable Mentions

I added this section because some sites don’t fall strictly into the category of poker blogs but are very much worth the read.

JeremyEnke.com: Jeremy is the man when it comes to casino and poker affiliate marketing. His blog focuses a little more on the affiliate side so I had some internal debate if he qualifies as a poker blog.

Melted Felt: Some of the best poker parody out there. It’s like The Onion of poker.

Poker News: Not really a blog per se so that’s why it falls into the honourable mentions category. They have a great rooster of writers who always seem to be the first to have the breaking poker news.

Poker Prof: Kind of a cross between a blog and a news site. Either way, I love Flip Chip’s camera work. A good read, a good pulse on the industry, and quality photography. What more can you ask for from a blog . . . I mean news site . . . I mean bloginewsphotograhy site?

Tommy Angelo: I’m never sure if Tommy is a poker player who teaches life skills or a life skills guru who teaches poker. He writes with such style and flair the only thing that keeps him out of the top 10 list is that he’s somewhat of an irregular updater. Then again, knowing your limits and being comfortable with your life balance are exactly what Tommy tries to teach people so perhaps his infrequent posts are just another lesson.

WPBT – I Hate You People

Bill Rini — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:33:21 +0000

This weekend marks the third WPBT Winter Classic in Vegas. Up until this event I had seen every Winter and Summer classic since inception (and even won one). And dammit if I’m not pissed that I couldn’t make it this year. I wanted to but I had just put way too may hours in an airplane seat the last couple of months to want to jump on yet another 11 hour flight. That and asking for more time off at a job you’ve just started after flying back to LA for an extended weekend for a funeral would have been pushing it a little too far.

I received a dial-a-shot call from Iggy and Amy but at 7am local time I guess I completely tuned out the ringing of the phone. I hadn’t thought about the WPBT event much as it was always a 1-outer for me to be able to go this year. Now I have to say that I hate all of you people for having fun. Damn you.

I will be back though. The next Summer Classic awaits.

Iggy Folds

Bill Rini — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:08:21 +0000

Iggy the dwarf sized blogger with Paul Bunyan sized heart has decided to kill off Guiness and Poker. This finally brings to an end years of Iggy’s threats to hang it all up and close his website. What we’ll talk about now when we chat is unclear.

In other news: NASDAQ closed up +13 points today on reports that business productivity increased an amazing 7000% in the last 24 hours.

This Is How I Expect To Go

Bill Rini — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 17:24:32 +0000

I imagine this as a group of poker bloggers.

How to beat anyone at Rock Paper Scissors

Bill Rini — Mon, 09 Oct 2006 07:36:42 +0000

Contrary to what you might think RPS is not simply a game of luck or chance. While it is true that from a mathematical perspective the ‘optimum’ strategy is to play randomly, it still is not a winning strategy for two reasons. First, ‘optimum’ in this case means you should win, lose and draw an equal number of times (hardly a winning strategy over the long term). Second, Humans, try as they might, are terrible at trying to be random, in fact often humans in trying to approximate randomness become quite predictable. So knowing that there is always something motivating your opponent’s actions, there are a couple of tricks and techniques that you can use to tip the balance in your favour.

A good primer for the next WPBT event

Funny Pics From Carter

Bill Rini — Mon, 02 Oct 2006 12:35:40 +0000

Unfortunately I was unable to attend the Bash at the Boat but scouring around the internet for pics brought me some joy.

Gavin Smith slipping his hand down someone’s pants

Derek putting something into his pants as well.

Joe Speaker about to lose his shirt.

The Rooster in his natural state

Thanks Carter!

Buy DoubleA’s Book

Bill Rini — Wed, 02 Aug 2006 16:24:01 +0000

During the WPBT blogger tourney I was seated with DoubleA’s who I’ve long respected and admired from his blog postings. I bought a copy of his book from him right then and there at the table. I’m only a few pages in I like what I see. I’ll do a full review once I’m finished (which might be awhile as I’m swamped lately) but in the meantime, based on what I’ve seen so far, you can’t go too far wrong buying a copy.

Go Check Out Ryan’s Blog

Bill Rini — Sun, 30 Jul 2006 04:35:41 +0000

I was fortunate enough to find an unlocked door at the WSOP Main Event and snuck in to see Ryan. Ryan was at table 201 and kicking a little ass.

Check out Ryan’s blog for updates on his progress. All I know is that if I was in the big one I would be too drained to want to do a blog post but Ryan religiously updates his blog all day.

H.O.R.S.E

Bill Rini — Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:49:19 +0000

Looks like the WSOP took a cue from the blogger community and started dealing mixed games. Today is the kickoff of the $50,000 buy-in H.O.R.S.E event. Go follow it play by play on PokerWire. Related Posts Catch WSOP Coverage Over At PokerWire Poker Photo Caption Challenge 22 Tuff_Fish Takes a Bad Beat At the WSOP [...]